Expect to cross or be at alititude

[Wayne Pierce]

Greetings Pilots,
Another lesson here from the training department. It has been argued by some to me that an "expect to cross" altitude on a chart does not apply to a check flight. It does in fact apply to you.

Understand the difference between "expect to cross at 12000", and "cross at 12000". The first means that you should plan on it happening (and if no controller is online you should do it), but don't do it until actually told. The second one means you must do it if told to "descend via the XXX arrival". For example on the KEPEC1 arrival into KLAS, if you are told to "descend via the KEPEC 1 arrival", you must cross MISEN at or above FL240, CLARR at 13000ft and 250kts, KEPEC at 12000, IPUMY at 11000ft, NIPZO at 9000ft, SUNST at 8000ft and 210 kts. KIMME at 210 kts, and CHIPZ at 170kts. You must follow the speed restrictions regardless if you were told to descend via the arrival unless you are told otherwise.

The point here being is, a check flight has no active ATC and you are not told to actually do the above, BUT the AAV, we, are the active ATC by virtue of the instructions given in the check flight package.

I was told by a "real world" pilot that he did not have to cross a certain waypoint at 12,000' because no controller told him so and it was just an "expect to be" on his part. Well he tried this 3 times in a check flight and failed all 3 times until the 4th he capitulated and passed.

Thanks

[Todd Meek]

Good point Wayne. I as a former training department member myself, I would expect them to be at that altitude as well regardless if it says "expect to cross" or "cross at" for the same exact reason you said. As the training department, we are the ATC giving you precise instructions to follow and in order to pass the checkride you have to follow those instructions.